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For those who autocross with Spokes... - Equiraptor's Journal
For those who autocross with Spokes...
And are not on the mailing list:

There's a discussion of the classes used at autocrosses currently occurring on the list. The person who started the thread is basically requesting a reduction, or even elimination, of the PAX classes, forcing more people to run in the "open" classes, encouraging competition between drivers in similar cars. This was asked on the mailing list:

I think we can all agree that the PAX system is not perfect but the subscription levels of the Spokes Tire and Novice classes seem to indicate that people enjoy running them. I'll pick on Novice since that was a huge class last Sunday. Getting rid of Novice would certainly cause all of the other "real" classes to grow and become more competitive. Or keeping Novice but reducing the number of events that you're eligible to run Novice from six in a season to one could have a similar effect. So, the question goes out to all the folks that run Novice class: what do you think? Is there a competitive spirit in Novice or do you just run there because it exists?

So, those of you running in Novice at Spokes events (ivo and moonwick), and those of you in Tire, as well: What do you think? Would the Novices keep coming if you had to move to Tire or your open class after your first event or two? Would those of you in Tire keep coming if you had to run in your open class, against people on racing tires?


8 comments | Leave a comment
moonwick From: moonwick Date: September 21st, 2007 02:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
The only person I really feel like I'm competing against is myself, so I wouldn't be all that sad to see N go.
ivo From: ivo Date: September 21st, 2007 05:48 pm (UTC) (Link)

Me too.

I was going to post a comment with the exact same content. I only race against myself.

I also never understood grouping all the Novices in one table. I, as an NDS, should be judged against other DS (with appropriate pax modifier), and not against all other N. We already race in our non-N heat anyway. That way, the original poster wouldn't complain about a "large class" either...

On a lighter note, I'm happy to see that Moonie feels the same way, this means he didn't figure out that he beat me last Sunday :)
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: September 21st, 2007 05:57 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Me too.

I, as an NDS, should be judged against other DS (with appropriate pax modifier)
That "appropriate pax modifier" doesn't belong. The PAX is for the car, not the driver, so NDS has the same PAX as DS.

Tire, Novice, and X-Pro are "PAX" classes because they're a mix of different cars. The "open" classes are compared without PAX adjustment, as being in an open class (supposedly) already levels the playing field. You can just compare your raw times to DS raw times.

Given the lack of other drivers in CSP, I've been comparing my raw times to SS. I'd like to have more competition in CSP, but that's going to come when Greg Ward finishes building up his car and comes back. I'm gonna start getting my butt kicked. :)
nrubenstein From: nrubenstein Date: September 21st, 2007 02:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
IMHO, non-competition classes are a really bad idea.
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: September 21st, 2007 02:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
Can I ask why?

The guy who started the thread called them "fake" classes. Your "non-competition" is... a bit less inflammatory.
nrubenstein From: nrubenstein Date: September 21st, 2007 02:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's because it encourages people to run in crutch classes. They *are* fake classes because any competition in them is imagined. They're not a big deal if people are restricted to a couple events in them (1-3 times and you're kicked out), but allowing people to run a whole season or more discourages improvement.

The whole point of these sorts of classes is to breed competition for the classes that count. IMHO, people who don't want to run in the classes that count shouldn't be enabled.

matisanerd From: matisanerd Date: September 21st, 2007 09:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
Novice should be around for those people with four or less runs. That way they don't feel bad if they're new and do horrible... it's because they're a nov!
decibel45 From: decibel45 Date: September 22nd, 2007 01:32 am (UTC) (Link)
My times have sucked every time I've run, so I don't really care.

Though, I'm hoping I might actually do halfway decent now that I know my car if I ran on a surface that didn't suck...
8 comments | Leave a comment