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Opera Sucks - Equiraptor's Journal
equiraptor
equiraptor
Opera Sucks
Perhaps I'm just unfamiliar with the beast, but Opera sucks. I used it today, just to see how it would render some of my pages. Before actually viewing my pages, I was hoping to get the browser to behave to my specifications.

I start Opera, and am presented with some dialog box. I can't even remember the box now, but I clicked whatever would make the most sense for me and move on. I'm presented with a mass of overly pretty toolbars in a blueish theme. I figure, no big deal, I'll make all this stuff go away. I'm sure some users like the pretty, but it's really not my thing.

So, I click "File," expecting to find "Preferences" somewhere in the menu. It was there, though near the bottom of a very long menu. It was next to "Quick Preferences," which I considered, but I figured I might as well just go the long route. Clickety clickety. Up pops the dialog box. A little bit of pretty, but not enough to draw my eyes away from my intended task. I run through the preferences. On the way, I glance at the possible skins in the default download. Default, and Windows. I take a look and Windows, and though it eliminates the blue of the default skin, it also causes other things to be presented in an unacceptable manner. so, back to blue as I keep looking.

I reach "Toolbars and Menus." Yay! I'll make all those hideous eyesores go away, right? Wrong! "Opera Minimal" still includes some huge box on the right side that reminds me of the history page in Firefox, only with more functionality. Functionality I don't want or need. I don't want a desktop shell, I want a small, fast, configurable web browser. There doesn't appear to be an "Advanced" or "Edit" option for these toolbar schemes.

I travel on, and reach "Windows." O great, what is this going to be? From here I infer that what Firefox / Mozilla / the sensible world calls "tabs," Opera calls Windows. I set some options, and don't see some options I'd want(load links in background, a set of accepted sites for popups, etc).

I skip a number of things I don't care about and quickly set the "Identify as" to Opera. Identifying as IE doesn't seem like the wisest default option, but, whatever. And here's "Privacy." Yay! "Enable referrer logging" is an option I'm glad to see. I set some cookie options and a few other things, and continue on to "Security." I didn't mess with anything in there, though I probably would if I were planning on using Opera extensively.

I've made my way through the preferences dialog box, so I apply and exit. That damn sidebar thing is still there. How do I make that crap go away? I plow through the menus and find a way to make a few more toolbars vanish, though that side thing remains! I finally just size it to almost nothing and go on. All of my pages rendered fine.

So, I guess I see why some people would use Opera, but it's far from a browser I'd want to be using. The UI feels clunky and strange to me, though it may just be my lack of familiarity with the thing.

Edit: I used Opera again today to test a new page with an horizontal line formatted using css. The page validates, and renders correctly in IE 6 and recent versions of Mozilla based browsers. I tested Opera 7.23 and Opera 7.50 preview 4. Neither rendered the line correctly, even though both the HTML and the CSS are valid. This is the page.

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Comments
quelrod From: quelrod Date: March 15th, 2004 08:15 am (UTC) (Link)
hmm the UI for opera always urked me...have you tried firefox?

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 15th, 2004 08:18 am (UTC) (Link)

It looks like you didn't read behind the cut...

"Opera Minimal" still includes some huge box on the right side that reminds me of the history page in Firefox

Yes, Firefox is my primary browser. Period. I just wanted to see my web pages render in Opera, to make sure those... strange people... who use it see my pages properly. Basically, I was bored and wasting time. :)
quelrod From: quelrod Date: March 15th, 2004 08:39 am (UTC) (Link)
actually fault me for skimming as i saw an opera ui complaint and didn't thoroughly read :)
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 15th, 2004 08:43 am (UTC) (Link)
*grins*

I probably would have done the same.
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 15th, 2004 10:16 pm (UTC) (Link)

Opera is awesome!

I would download Opera 7.50 Preview 3 first off. http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47230

I think you are suffering from IE or Firefox withdrawal----Opera can be customized to look virtually anyway you want it to look.

Take advantage of the wealth of help available at the MyOpera Community Forums, too.

Here's a couple terrific websites that cite Opera's advantages/features from a user's standpoint, too:

http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/ and http://nontroppo.org/wiki/WhyOpera

Here's a very fresh article about the Opera browser in The Inquirer today, too: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14734

The Opera browser with integrated browser, email, newsgroups, RSS newsfeeds, and chat is brilliant, IMO. I've worked with MyIE2, Mozilla, Firefox, and other IE-tabbed-browser-shells very thoroughly and find that Opera is my favorite.

The email client built-in to Opera is fascinating, I must add, too: see how it compares to other email clients here: http://home.dataparty.no/kristian/reviews/nextgen-mua/

Good luck and don't give up too quickly would be my advice. :)

equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 16th, 2004 07:28 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Opera is awesome!

I would download Opera 7.50 Preview 3 first off.
I'd rather be running a stable version of software I didn't know.

Opera can be customized to look virtually anyway you want it to look.
I shouldn't have to work to get a look that is pretty decent and isn't color specific. IMO there isn't an option in the default download that looks decent and isn't color specific.

Take advantage of the wealth of help available at the MyOpera Community Forums, too.
I'm not investing a lot of time in this, I just wanted a quick look.

The Opera browser with integrated browser, email, newsgroups, RSS newsfeeds, and chat is brilliant
That's good. I don't want all that stuff integrated. I like all my software as it is. I just want a fast, easy way to make the eyesores in Opera go away.

The email client built-in to Opera is fascinating,
I don't care. I use Mutt. Can I reach the Opera email client from any computer with the Internet and an ssh client?

Good luck and don't give up too quickly would be my advice.
I don't want luck, and I am going to give up. I'm just not interested in putting in the effort.

You also didn't mention how I could eliminate that annoying sidebar - got any help there? I'm not going to go out of my way looking for help on this. I wasn't looking for a new web browser, and definitely not a new email client. Firefox and Mutt fit my needs, with an occasional use of w3m. In case you haven't noticed, I like minimal programs. The large bundle of software that is Opera is a strike against in before I even use it. That's not what I'm interested in - that's why I'm not running Mozilla. You may prefer Opera's tabbed browsing better than other browsers, but I like Firefox just fine.
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 16th, 2004 11:52 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Opera is awesome!

That's fine....no problem. :)
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 16th, 2004 07:57 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Opera is awesome!

To turn off the sidebar, simply right-click on the sidebar and select "customize toolbars" and have at it; the toolbar you are customizing/removing/editing should have a yellow-border around it.....check the forums, too, and ask questions there if you insist on getting Opera "right" for your use and are using a Beta/Preview version. :)

equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 16th, 2004 08:02 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Opera is awesome!

To turn off the sidebar, simply right-click on the sidebar and select "customize toolbars"
Right clicking on the sidebar doesn't do anything. When I right click on other toolbars and select "customize toolbars" I can't seem to switch to that one. I tried that before my original post.

To turn off the sidebar, simply right-click on the sidebar and select "customize toolbars"
To the best of my knowledge, I'm not using a beta/preview version. See the above comment for why. The "about Opera" says version 7.23, build 3227.
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 16th, 2004 08:17 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Opera is awesome!

Ah hah! I finally figured it out! It's the "hotlist" - clicking the hotlist button in the toolbar with back, forward, and home, makes that aggravating sidebar go away!
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 17th, 2004 01:08 pm (UTC) (Link)

F4 Toggles the Hotlist

F4 will toggle the hotlist in Opera, too. You can put the Hotlist button on one of your toolbars, too, to toggle it.

With that said, Opera 7.50 Tech Preview 3 is as stable as 7.23 as far as I can tell with some other neat stuff included.

I also think Opera 7.50 TP3 is as stable as Firefox 0.8 from my use of both quite extensively.

Just my 2 cents, again.... :)
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 17th, 2004 01:13 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: F4 Toggles the Hotlist

F4 will toggle the hotlist in Opera, too.
Ahhh, thanks. :)

I also think Opera 7.50 TP3 is as stable as Firefox 0.8 from my use of both quite extensively.
Cool. Neither is considered a final, stable version, so I don't expect rock-solid stability from them (Firefox won't be "stable" until 1.0-final). It sounds like Opera's TP# is like the -pre# I'm accustomed to in many open source projects - pretty stable, but not "final" yet.
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 20th, 2004 09:18 am (UTC) (Link)

Opera is indeed the best

the reason u are having problems with opera is you don't give it a chance. you can never see the worth of opera by using if for less than a week. opera grows on you and pretty soon you become addicted. it has everything and can do everything. granted it does have its weaknesss, it is still the best one out there.
i mean look at it, it's small, it has chat, mail client, tab browsing, lots of special features and did i say small. all that in a 3.6 meg package (the size of some interent explorrr hot-fixes}. you don't like the interface, change it, change anything you want, you can do that with opera, download any skin you want, make your own skin. please don't say it sucks because u don't like how it looks.
when i launch opera, it takes me to a home page or pages of my choice or a blank one if i so choose, it check all my mails accounts. it basically does everything i want it to do,just by launching it. then there are the 18 integrated search engines, just insert whatever you want to search for in the search text box and click enter if you want google, or go to the search pull-down menu and check for the search engine you want (ebay, amazon, download.com, lycos....)
nothing out there can compare to opera in my opinion, and i have tried most of the others. i like firefox, it's relatively simple and it's faster than IE, but to get the functionality of opera i have to add soo many plug ins and third party applicaitons (remember firefox is already twice the size of opera to begin with)most of which comes already bundle with opera.

after using a browser for such a long time, it is difficult to change, so i understand that the concept of a browser will revolve around IE, even firefox kinda looks like IE. changing to an other one is going to be difficult, kinda like changing from windows to MAC, it's hard at first, but then u get it and ask yourself y u didn't do this earlier. break free from the chains of M$ to check out other stuff, there are better software out there that are way better than those that come bundled with Windows. don't let microsoft control your internet experience.

thanks
GoPool
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: March 20th, 2004 09:47 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Opera is indeed the best

the reason u are
I respect comments with proper grammar and spelling much more than comments without, in the same way that I respect people who speak properly in person more so than those who use excessive slang and / or Ebonics.

you don't give it a chance.
I'm not giving it a chance because I don't want a new web browser. I'm quite satisfied with the one I'm using. I just want it to look good and behave properly with an easy-to-attain set of options in the default download.

and pretty soon you become addicted.
That's a bad thing. I don't want to be addicted to anything.

it has everything
If you had read previous comments, you'd see that's not a good point to make with me. I don't want my web browser to try to do everything. I want it to allow me to browse the web the way I want. That's it.

it's small
So's lynx.

it has chat, mail client,
So does Mozilla and Netscape. I'm not using either of them.

tab browsing
My current browser has that.

make your own skin.
See, that requires work. I want a decent look that does not have a color theme and does not require work. I don't think I should have to download an extra skin to get a clean, simple, non-color-themed skin. That should be in the default download.

please don't say it sucks because u don't like how it looks.
I'm not. I'm saying it sucks for a number of reasons, one of which is it does not have a default skin that looks decent and isn't themed around a color.

when i launch opera, it takes me to a home page or pages of my choice or a blank one if i so choose
I can make FireFox do that as well.

it check all my mails accounts
Mutt constantly checks all my mail accounts and keeps me updated.

but to get the functionality of opera
I don't want a web browser that tries to be lots of other stuff as well. I have one plugin in FireFox - the user agent switcher. Yes, that is in the default package in Opera, but the plugin works. No need to change for one little feature, and then make a skin I think is decent.

break free from the chains of M$ to check out other stuff,
Wow. You don't know anything about me, and you just hit all of my warning buttons. I'm a Linux and FreeBSD user. I've also run OpenBSD. I even run Linux at work. I only run Windows for gaming opportunities, and unless I'm running a game, the only things I'm running are ssh sessions and FireFox. Microsoft only has a hold on me because of Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed.
dsky From: dsky Date: March 21st, 2004 09:37 am (UTC) (Link)
(Sorry stumbled across this through random_review and it provoked a mini-rant)

I have to agree, Opera's user-interface is horrific, and quite frankly has been for as long as I can remember (every so often I install the latest version on one of my machines, poke it for a bit and then remove it).

The initial impression it gives with its 1209942 toolbars (estimate) and 100x100 browsing area is not good and it gets worse when you try to disable the stupid things. Its preferences have all the worst conceivable UI stupidities - mazes of badly labelled configuration options, a theme-able interface (rather than a nice standard easy-to use one) and numerous others.

Opera tries to be compatible with IE rather than with standards.

And they expect people to *pay* for it? When Firefox is totally free and so much better? What kind of crack are they smoking?

Oh, and when Apple announced that they were using KHTML for Safari the Opera people threatened to stop releasing Opera for the Mac unless Apple licensed their rendering engine. Apple's response was (to translate it from legalise) "hahahahahahah go away".
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 6th, 2004 06:51 pm (UTC) (Link)

Clean interface in Opera

The latest 7.5 preview ( http://my.opera.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=31 ) has a much cleaner default interface. If you don't like the banner or adwords go find yourself a serial and register it and you'll have as much browsing space if not more than other browsers.
equiraptor From: equiraptor Date: April 6th, 2004 07:30 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Clean interface in Opera

Got a screenshot (rather than just a link to a forum)?
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 9th, 2004 09:50 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Clean interface in Opera

Here's a screenshot of the Mac version which looks pretty much the same as the Windows. If you have Windows XP and the Luna theme Opera will take advantage of it and blend in nicely with other apps.

http://fileforum.betanews.com/screenshots/1053588432.jpg

The panel buttons on the left side of the screen can be removed along with the bookmarks and search bar up top. Unless you register the very top of the browser window will be used by google adwords, this doesn't happen in fullscreen though.

I am pretty sure a new skin is going to be used for the final version, not sure what it looks like. They will probably change a lot more of the interface before the final as well. And I'm not sure why they took out the home button.
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 26th, 2004 05:33 pm (UTC) (Link)

Another update - 7.5 Beta 1

Just another update: 7.5 Beta 1 is out. It has the new skin (although not completely finished) and the look is much cleaner. Here's a screenshot (http://www.opera.com/graphics/products/desktop/opera750b1_4computer_win.jpg).

Download it from: http://my.opera.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=31

PS. If you want to remove the bar along the left side of the screen, Go View -> Panels -> Panel Selector Placement -> Off.
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